Eleven Rack vs Axe-FX II vs AmpliFire

i made a preset on the axe-fx II using the Friedman BE amp model, then tried to duplicate it using the other two devices. the AmpliFire had the advantage of using the same IR as the axe-fx II. guess which one is which?

the devices are recorded in no particular order...

https://soundcloud.com/singtall/eleven-rack-vs-axe-fx-ii-vs-amplifire

Heh, they all sound different to me for sure. I'll play though.

1 = AmpliFire
2 = Axe-FX 2
3 = 11R

I have never tried #1 or #2 so its a guess to which is which. While there are differences between 1 & 2, not enough for me to definitively say oh that must be axe... but here's my reasoning...

#1 has a midrange honkiness and almost a real slow low rate chorus-like thing going on to my ears, so that's why I picked #2 as axe-fx.

Your intro sounds best on #1 though.

#3 doesn't really have the vibe of the other two, at least for me...

you must be listening in mono. one of them has two cabs that are slightly different. in stereo it's just a little wider, in mono it's sounds kinda out of phase or comb filtered. good guesses, but not correct yet. thanks for playing.

11R preset used for this test:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vm31x2ezb7frhw9/Friedman%20BE%204.tfx?dl=0

it's my forth try at it.

I was using headphones and it came through in stereo. Reminds me of chorus rate set to zero - it was a trick I remember some guy used on the Digitech GNX series (can't remember the name of those models anymore!) which sounds cool and definitely adds width to the sound, but it's got a sonic thumb print for sure. I wonder if those cab IRs are different distances as well, because one side sounds more "forward" to me.

Anyway preference wise for me, #2 wins on full-on distortion, #1 wins for dynamics during intro. #3 (the 11R I think) just doesn't hang here. Still love my 11R though!!! :-)

Thanks for sharing these demos. Hope you get to do more in the future.

Axe,amplifire,11r. The 3D seem to have more gain dialed in in the intro,without the same ir i think its difficult to match .

My guess

1 - Axe
2 - Amplifire
3 - 11 rack

So what are your plans with how you will use the 3 units? Are you keeping the 11R around, or will you thin the herd?

I'll go a little different...

1) Axe FX
2) 11R
3) Amplifire

some of you might visit other forums and have already seen the answer, so here it is:

1 - Axe
2 - Amplifire
3 - 11 rack

the axe-fx II is my primary rig for recording now. the amplifire was going to be my go-to quick gig rig, but i don't think i'm going to join a band after all at this point....just no time. so i'm not sure of what to do with it. i may use it to double track just for a little different tone. the 11R will remain in the studio since i am still updating the superpack and i use it for a microphone interface.

Singtall,just for curiosity,can you play the same riffs on the 11r with epsi and the same ir used for amplifire just to get an idea? Are you going to do an amplifire superpack?

i have the Epsi boxed up for sale, so i wasn't planning on doing anything with it. but what i learned from using that IR with the AmpliFire is that the IR didn't bring it closer in tone as much as i thought it would....it still took a bunch of eq and then it still wasn't quite there.

i will probably do an AmpliFire superpack if the demand is there.

Well from your experience if you used that ir on the 11r,would it be up there with the amplifire?
Ps is that ir a payed one or one you can share?

I liked the cleaner parts on the first/gain was good. Second I loved the gainy parts/cleaner parts were okay. Last part was congested cleaner/solid but noisy gain (and solid as in "direct" sounding/hard to describe as good or bad in a mix but didn't like it solo'd).

Reading through, I wasn't sure which was which modeler any more but I thought the first time I heard it before that it went 11/Axe/AF...

this is the IR i started with. it was a little bass heavy, so i eq'd it. Cliff from fractal asked me to pull the link for my IR because it sounded to close to the Fractal cab 103...so i removed it.

this is the link to the cabinet Fremen claims to have made:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jw22calf3thtr4i/05%20TDR%20warmer%20Marshall.syx?dl=0

Just out of curiosity (not picking) why did you replay your riff 3 times rather than just re-amp? I suspect the 11R clip could be more dynamic maybe? Maybe it's the rig settings, but I think the 11R can go from clean to scream with just the volume knob similar to the 1st clip.

can't reamp with the amplifire via usb. i would have had to do too much recabling to run it through the other units.

i know the 11R can do better cleaning up because i have a ton of presets that do that, but this was about getting a Friedman tone...which was not a fair test for anything but the axe-fx II.

I dont get the fractal remove thing,you made an ir by yourself and they asked you to remove it because it sound similar to one of their irs? Didn't know there was a "frequency copyright " 😂

I don't know for myself but I have heard that Cliff guy is a JERK.... that really is lame for him to do that. you are a stand up guy for doing it even though it wasn't his stuff.

as far as the clip goes #2 sounds just as good as #1 and the 11r sounds kind "lack luster" here. I to would like to have heard the EPSI in play as well.

is that link is the ir you used for the clip?

test part 2:

to be more fair...this time i simply picked a typical 80's setup using the JCM800/Tubescreamer/25watt and used the same amp settings across all units. i had to use cabinet bottom boost to the AmpliFire stock IR because it did sound very thin without it, but it's still a fair test of what's in the box without adding eq or IR.

I won't make you guess which one is which:

1) Eleven Rack
2) AmpliFire
3) Axe-FX II

https://soundcloud.com/singtall/eleven-rack-vs-amplifire-vs-axe-fx-ii-jcm800

wow i liked amplifire more than axe this time...axe and 11 seem in the ballpark considering cab differences

amaplifire is more raw.

coin toss on this one in my opinion... they are all different but all sound good to me. amplifire clip sounds a little thin but might work really well in a mix.

thanks for putting together another demo.

Well, they sounded quite different each from the others, but this time I quite liked all three tones.

Guessing 11R, AxeFX, Amplifire...although really not sure, just though I heard that familiar 11R delay sound on the first one & the second sounded really dynmic yet open like AxeFX should...last one is kinda direct sounding like the Amplifire and the bass boost you mentioned seems to be present. I like that the Amplifire is high passed like the Kemper bc that helps alot when tracking. Always a challenge on 11R without IRs that use high and low pass so you can just use the amps without EQing.

WoW I kinda like them in that order.... the 11r sounds nice and clean (clear, balanced) then the AF sounds a little more mid-rangy (but really good I like it too) and the AX sounds alot mid-rangy (I am surprised that it sounds like this, really don't like it as well)... that's the best I can say for the lack of my ability to explain what I am hearing...
I listened to it 3 times.

like i said, it was in this order:

1) Eleven Rack
2) AmpliFire
3) Axe-FX II

which one you hear first changes opinions on what people like better.

i thought the 11R and axe-fx II did a better job of emulating the JCM800 power amp sag and compression, the AmpliFire sounded and felt more like just a preamp to me.

all usable tones though.

Ooops I missed that reveal...Interesting. There was a lot of interesting spikes of rawness in the Amplifire that (I think would be) fun to work with in a mix. 11R & AxeFX are more polished, but this is making me more interested in the Amplifire now.

TLTD - for the type of tone and feel that you like (smooth) the AmpliFire would be the worst choice. i'm still working on how to get rid of the high end bite that won't go away no matter what IR i use.

i added some eq's to the AmpliFire and i think i may have found a way to make it do what i want...or least sound closer to the other two units.

clip order:

1) eleven rack
2) AmpliFire
3) Axe-Fx II

https://soundcloud.com/singtall/final-jcm800-test

***newsflash^^^

i'm beta testing the new firmware and the SLO and Dumble amps are simply amazing! i never got the hype about either amp until now. the Dumble alone is worth the money.

the new amp models are also warmer and not raw feeling at all. it doesn't get any better than this. you will swear there are real tubes in there.

Awesome. I didn't realize they were doing updates, that changes the game.

I agree with Ross - I'm beta testing also - INCREDIBLE!

The AmpliFIRE is just getting started. They're going to continue to enhance and update the unit. Tom (at Atomic) and Marc (at Studio Devil) are VERY attentive to the requests of the market. They're both small shops but are working very hard (around the clock) to deliver what people are asking for.

wow!!!

this time i liked more the axe...then 11r then amplifire

The Axe definitely had more midrange raunch in the second clip.

I still liked the 11r best (still much cleaner, clearer), the axe takes 2nd and sounds great, the AF is still a little dark in the mids (I think) just sounds like it's not enough bite into the highs... I wish I could explain it better.

I've been using the 11R for years and was just about to buy a Logidy when I heard about and started reading about the Amplifire.

*Very* tempted by the form-factor and the ability to load IR's! I find I need to run my 11R through an IR (usually on my Mac) in order to really enjoy it, hence why I considered the Logidy. Way back in the day I used and loved a Yamaha DG Stomp, and the Amplifier box reminds me a lot of that, even including the color! On the 11R I've been meaning to use and set up the Behringer foot controller but instead that thing just sits in the corner and gives me funny looks that make me feel guilty for never getting it going.

Anyways, assuming you go through the trouble of running the 11R and Amplifire through identical IR's, how similar are they in terms of sounds and feel? I like that the 11R is detailed enough to give you different controls for different amp models, but of course that's not very important. I also like the sag you can get out of the models, for a real "pissed off" raging overdriven amp sound.

Probably the biggest thing I'd be worried about losing is the True-Z feature of the 11R... again, its not *important* but its a nice touch that the amps really react differently to my different guitars and different pickups (i.e. going from PAF's to EMG's to Fender single-coils). Do you find you miss this at all on the Amplifire?

the amplifire is a different animal, but it still feels right. you can't go wrong with either unit.

using the same IR they both sound different. the amps that were modeled we not the exact same amp, so the models won't match between the two units.

Thanks Singtall!

At the moment (including your lucky BETA experience), which would you say is the better animal of the two different animals when it comes to pure, raw, unadulterated preamp and poweramp modeling? I'm a way meat+potatoes guitar tone guy so not worried about effects, and anyway would rather apply those using dedicated gear. Also, as before, in either case I'd be using the same cabinet IR's, which of course is muuuuch easier with the Amplifier but ultimately should be identical cabinet sound (except, maybe, for the "speaker breakup" feature in the 11R).

EDIT: for reference some tones I really like, that are both raw and organic, are Pelican and Russian Circles

for newer metal tones the amplifire will deliver much easier because of the amp models they chose to use. combine that with a good IR and you have the metal tone you dream about.

i just crafted a bunch of presets that really bring the unit close to the same tone/feel as i'm getting from the axe-fx II. for getting the tone that I like, it's pretty easy.

Here's my question...

Since so many prefer to use IRs over the stock cabs in the various pieces of gear (and I've heard a bunch of samples showing a clear improvement using IRs), why aren't these companies just making better cab models in the first place???

hi mark, i thonk its all a matter of taste, maybe they choose something more general wich can fit many people taste

i guess i'm famous now. lol.

http://atomicamps.com/support/

at the atomic website you will find a link to a singtall superpack that i made for them. some of my best work if i say so myself.

i would like to thank the guys here that helped me out for Christmas 2012 when i was hurt real bad and not working. many of you guys donated for my eleven rack superpack and it ended up being my part time job, and that is still true today.

i've expanded my line of superpacks to the atomic amplifire. it is very capable of stellar tone. check out the 47 totally free presets at the atomic site when you get a chance.

new website for singtall atomic superpack:

https://sites.google.com/site/singtallamplifiresuperpack/home

sample preset soundclip made by atomic using my preset:

https://soundcloud.com/atomic-amps/dokken-singtall

Dude that's Awesome! they need to hire you! now I need you to get a Helix and get to work! LOL

But seriously the Helix is so easy to get good tone from... Even I can do it.

Hey that clip sounds great!!! and the web atomic site, that is so cool bro...

Nice, I saw Atomic uploaded a sample of the Singtall stuff and I had that feeling like hey I worked with that famous guy on some stuff haha

You're like a standard that a lot of these modelers need to have when they launch. That would be nice.

Also, on the whole comparison thing, the EPSi makes the Eleven Rack sound a ot more like the Axe FX. I noticed a comment on SC saying the first one was definitely Eleven Rack & to me it did sound a lot like the sounds I've been getting quite a bit with the Ownhammer IRs. All three of these units are pretty good stuff, and the price point is still 11R+EPSi/Amplifire (alone, plus cost of I/O interface)/Axe FX.

Thanks for introducing us to the EPSi capabilities, I could tell right away I was gonna love it. Axe FX kinda does it all though, and sounds great & Atomic keeps geting better & so glad you could help them out. That makes it much more enticing.

You are starting to get my interest for the EPSI!!!
Question: How easy is it to get a good sound for FOH with the EPSI? (ie: Plexi model with Ownhammer 4x12" with Celestion speakers IR)?

With the 11R I have to spend a lot of effort with the parametric eq going with cab simulator on. Would I still have to play with the parametric eq?
If I go Rig Output No Cab to my tube power amp/4x12" cab it takes me seconds to have a very good sound and don't have to use the parametric eq.

Oops, post it in the wrong tread...

if you have the cash....get the amplifire. loads IR's, great amp models....plus they keep adding new amp models for free.

put the amplifire in the 11R effects loop and never look back.

Sounds like a plan. A much cheaper plan than Axe FX2 at that.

there are rumors that a tone match eq will be added in a future update. that would be the bomb! IR's will no longer matter.

really bad demo, but it's something to start with. my playing is pretty rusty at this point. will make a better video soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4bVWbH6jjU

I think your so good at dialing in tones that you could probably do it with a wash tub broom stick and a string... LOL

sounds great BTW!!!

The Scorpions and Van Halen one are SPOT ON. Dio one sounds great too. Def Leppard, holy wow you're getting some authentic sounds immediately identifiable. Dream Theater one sounds great. These are your best sounds ever, man. I take it that you had to do these without any "premium" IRs either, right? So big thumbs up on the Amplifire making it's way up to the big boys' territory. This is very gig ready especially for cover bands. I don't remember hearing so many sounds from Line 6, Boss, Eleven Rack, Axe FX, Kemper that made me think "that sounds EXACTLY" like the bands.

Those were all very good. I thought Ozzy/Rhoads and Def Leppard were especially spot on. Tough considering how much layering was done on the original recordings.

I'm not in the market for another amp modeler - 11R still getting it done for me.

That being said, you've mentioned there is a Dumble amp in the Amplifire. I've seen those on eBay for $50,000 to $85,000. Here's one that sold for $55,000 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/271149509473

I love the sound Larry Carlton gets out of his Dumble and would consider a vanity purchase of another modeler if it got close to the sound.

So if you think of it, next time you put together a video like this, could you do a snippet of the Dumble? I would suggest the Larry Carlton track Emotions Wound Us So.

It's just a very clean sound, but when he picks up (2:40) the amp is very responsive. It's easy to play, so just for your consideration for your next vid, I'd like to hear what the Amplifire can do with a short phrase of this, similar to what you did with the Steve Vai excerpt:

Oldish thread, but I'm going to kick it back up now.

So, I got an Axe-FX II XL last night and.... maybe I'm batsh*t crazy, but my immediate impression is I like the Eleven Rack better?!?!

Of course, this started off with my surprise at how incredibly immature the software suite is... it feels like its still in beta after all these years, and even though Eleven Rack Editor isn't exactly the sleekest newest thing around, its leaps more consistent and better flow.

But of course what I really care about is the sound.

To A/B test what I did was I ran my guitar in the Axe-FX and set up a parallel row in the Axe-FX to spit out a signal out the FX send into the Eleven Rack at unity gain, then had the Eleven Rack running back into the Axe-FX return. Normally I run Ownhammer IR's in my DAW, but in this case I had the Axe-FX handling the cabinet IR for both modelers. I used a mixer block in the Axe-FX to flip between the modelers.

Anyways, I don't really need the huge variety of modern amps since I mostly like classic amp vibes anyway, so the Axe-FX library is not a big benefit there.

In terms of trying similar tones between the two, I consistently found that the Eleven Rack seemed to have a more aggressive attack. I found this to be the case with the JCM800 and with the Bogner Red channel. The difference in gain available in the JCM800 was striking... the Axe-FX JCM800 has way more gain on tap than the Eleven Rack. I guess this is more true to the original amp?

I also tried the Big Muff into the JTM45's, and found that the Eleven Rack Big Muff again had way more cut, grind, and dynamism.

Finally, I do have to say I think the jet-cockpit UI of the Axe-FX is a bit of a creative impediment to playing guitar. I abhor having to keep a web browser open next to Axe-Edit to cross-reference what knobs and switches I'd be interested in messing with on which models. My immediate take is the Eleven Rack is designed to enable musicians, whereas the Axe-FX is built to the needs of producers and recording engineers.

i made the Larry Carlton preset using the Dumble bright model and my Singtall cabinet (made by Fremen) that tends to work with everything, and the tone is real close. the problem is that Carlton plays with his amp at a fairly loud volume....or at least close enough proximity to get feedback. to get that type of sustain i have to crank the amp up....which stops the nice sensitivity. you have to end up working your guitar volume control to clean it up more.

you can get a tone close to this out of the matchless amp model on the eleven rack....and maybe a little bit more touch sensitivity.

Haha, that is quite a jump from debating about picking up the Logidy EPSi. I have just the EPSi with the 11R and I love it, though I have been tempted to sell it and get an amplifire (or torpedo C.A.B.). The plus for you is that if you end up not liking the AxeFx2 too much you can still sell it and pick up the EPSi and an amplifire and still have money left over..

Hey Ross, have you noticed a difference in IR sound in the amplifire vs the EPSi? The Ownhammer IRs are 200 and 500ms and not truncated at all in the EPSi whereas they would be truncated to 21.3ms (1024 samples at 48khz) in the amplifire (and also the Axe-FX II). So does the extra length in the EPSi make a difference?

...And have the people at Atomic implemented the ability to bypass the preamp section in the Amplifire? Or at least put a transparent 'power' amp model in there to facilitate using other preamps in front of the Amplifire? Sorry for all the OT questions but I was exploring the possibility of using the Amplifire in place of the EPSi in the FX loop of my 11r..

care to share the IR bro??? LOL

I am currently loving my Helix and the new firmware that added a few more amps, fx and the "snap shot" feature that is similar to "scenes" in other units... about to get a JTV 89F whoo hoo!!!

IR pack from Fremen:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5622773/Fremen.zip

all of his IR's are useable.

Any insight or opinions on this comparison?

Or this? I think the question above is what is most influencing any motivation I have to try the amplifire out..

i didn't notice enough difference in IR's to worry about. from Epsi to Amplifire to Axe-fx it's all good.

the amplifire does have the option to bypass the amp model and use it strictly as a pedal.

Awesome! Thanks for that info!!

Your the best man, thanks!!!

thought about or got to try a Helix lately? they have come a long way since there inception. now at 2.1 firmware it has a lot to like...

Thanks singtall, you just saved me $96,000 - ha!

Actually there is a Dumble on reverb.com right now with a current price of $95,745.56. I'd think about it but the $532.21 shipping exceeds my budget. https://reverb.com/item/1140641-dumble-overdrive-special-1980s-ex-joe-bonamassa

Kidding aside, I've been searching for a 'sound' of my own, and as a Larry Carlton fan, I read up on him. I like how he plays with overdrive, yet the tone of the guitar is still audible; and he doesn't seem to lose sustain.

But the whole Dumble thing is conflicting for me. Sure I like the sound, but is any amp worth that kind of money?

There's an old clip of Alexander Dumble on YouTube in which he talks about 'Electrons surviving in a vacuum tube but having trouble in a crystal lattice," which may or may not be his 'secret.'

But I've heard amp modelers create sounds I'm just as fond of.

And that is a good point you make on volume. I actually dug my Marshall JCM800 out of the closet and by playing it loud and adjusting the guitar's volume, it does approximate what Larry Carlton is doing.