Amp advice needed....

Hey chaps, and chapettes,
I need a little advice regarding my amp setup.
I currently run my 11r exclusively at home for recording and practice, running it into my stereo via laptop, however I am hankering to get back into a band and if not gig ( God forbid) I am looking at rehearsing as a full band, soooooo
I have a Marshall 1981 JCM800 50 watt combo 1x12 ( I love this type of amp for portability and usable power) it's a beast however the 11r and the JCM don't play nice together, the ethos of the JCM is driving it to hell, but as its a single channel no fx loop, no reverb vintage amp, it's hard to link up with the eleven, it also doesn't take pedals well, either virtual or hardware.
I have my eye on an Engl Screamer 50 50 watts, 1x12 vintage 30 speaker, 4 modes ( clean, crunch, soft lead and heavy lead) reverb, fx loop with a series parallel blend control and midi.........
So my dilemma is, I can only afford the Engl if I sell/px the Marshall. Should I?
The Marshall is vintage and possibly worth something in the future, but the Engl is useable right now and has the best connectivity to the 11r ( 4 cable method, midi etc etc)
Thoughts???

Why run an Amp at all if you have a PA? Run the 11R direct, use a monitor for hearing it and be done.

Yeah I get that, but a PA is way more expensive than I want to/could afford, plus I am still a lil dubious about not running an amp at all, I mean 11r is cool for recording and home practice and all, but does it cut it live with no amp? the guy I bought it from used it that way and frankly he had an awful live sound, totally swamped by the other dude in the band running a cheap Marshall head and 4x12, and that was through a really nice PA with full set up, monitors etc etc AND. A really good sound guy, one I've watched, gigged with over several years, who knows his stuff and gets reliably good sounds.
Plus not even sure if the room we are gonna practice in has a PA! Lol.

Have you tried the Engl with the 11r yet? It would be very unfortunate to sell the Marshall if the results aren't much different - even with Engl's connectivity options.The problems might not be the head, but what the 11r can do pushed through an amp instead of a PA.

To answer William :. I still haven't tried the 11r through an amp yet so I don't know if I would be happy with the sounds I can get or not. Of course one option is using the amp head for it's natural tone and distortion and the 11r for it's fx only and not the preamp or amp modeling. This might sound ridiculous to most, but I get a very awesome live tone with a patch I have for the PODHD500 run through a good tube amp. Why would I do that? Because this patch gets a better, more sustaining distortion tone than the head's preamp in my opinion. I can get different tones just by changing guitar/pickups and or amp head channels for any sound I need. To each their own...

[quote=Doom Fiend]Have you tried the Engl with the 11r yet? It would be very unfortunate to sell the Marshall if the results aren't much different - even with Engl's connectivity options.The problems might not be the head, but what the 11r can do pushed through an amp instead of a PA.

lol good question, I have not actually tried the Engl yet, either on its own or with the 11r, however I played the Engl Thunder a few years back and totally lost my heart to it, just did not have the funds to get it at the time.
And the Screamer is essentially pretty similar, I obviou wouldn't part with any gear/cash without hooking everything up first, but I just wanted to see what people thought, the option of using the 11 as a fx only solution as well as a control brain for my switching needs was the main draw I guess. I don't plan on using the amp modelling/speaker sims at all, just the fx.

I gig with the 11R direct to FOH with good results. You need to work on your rigs to make them sound good live. What works on headphone/studio monitors usually don't sound good thru a loud PA.

William didn't suggest to buy a PA, he suggested to use the one provided by the venue.

Other thing is that we don't have amps onstage, guitar goes to 11R and XLR to FOH, bass goes to tube preamp and DI to FOH, so no need to "compete" with other members amps. Drummer have acoustic drum and with front monitors we have no problem to hear ourself.

Hey thanks for the reply, sorry I was prolly not making myself clear, there is not ( and hopefully never will be) a venue so the PA angle is pretty much out, as I am assuming any vocal rig in the practice room will be very small.
I am also assuming any other guitar/bass will be amped up as that is the norm, not many of us digital guys yet out there( at least not in the UK) hence the need to match, if not actually compete, with the other dudes plus a drum kit.
I get the whole FOH thing, but that requires a PA and venue with monitors etc etc, btw I have the Singtall super pack and a pretty good knowledge of what tones work and why.
So would you suggest a frfr wedge? Yamaha DTX is a possibility powered wedge, but again, funds dictate sale of Marshall first, then I am in the position of having NO amp lol and a bloody scary place to be.......

What I have learned with my 11R is this;
I just don't really like it without a real amp. Just something about what I am looking for from my sound. But, the quality of the amp is much less important to get that great sound. Why are you looking to stretch as far as an Engl? All you need is a good amp with a nice and crystal clean. My favorite is an ebay $250 Crate BV 50. Get the warmth of some decent tubes, get the growl of a real speaker. No need to break the bank. I even ran for a while in a clean channel of a solid state deal. The key is a great clean channel.
I say just borrow one from a friend and jump-wire it to the 12 in the marshall. See if you like it before you spend money.

What I do at home with great success is run my 11R into a Peavey Classic 60/60 tube poweramp and in a 4x12" Celestion G12K-85 loaded cab. Rig no cab but with different presets.

Or you can team-up with your singner and bass player to buy a 12" powered speaker and a matching subwoofer. EV ZLX12P + Sub will go around $1000 ($333 each). Bass player will only have to get a tube preamp or a Tech21 VT Bass DI. Good practice PA for cheap and the band will be cover for many situation including small party gigs.

Check out a Tech 21 Power Engine 60... great "amp" feel and very versatile. I´ve used as a monitor going straight to PA, as amp on stage in a small gig and even micéd on a big PA venue.... always delivered.

Hi thanks for the reply, the main thrust behind the Engl is that it's in the local guitar shack at a reasonable price second hand, i dunno man I am really torn here I hoped to get a chance to play it today but I didn't get home till after hours.....maybe Thursday. My main question I suppose was should I embrace the functionality of the Engl or cherish the vibe and tone ( albeit singular) of the Marshall.....however everyone's ideas have thrown up more things to consider, the plot thickens.

This is a real option, I just checked the bay and a Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp is going for £250 including postage
And a decent Marshall ( JCM 800/900/2000 or 1960a) go for the £225-250 mark.
This is possible.......interesting.
I'd have to try it out first though as again in a roundabout way it does leave me amp less.
And it's bloody heavy and bulky lol.

In ideal solution with only a few minor drawbacks.
No Singer.......
Bassist has perfectly functioning Ampeg SVT rig, doubt he is willing to purchase or indeed use a preamp
No gigs......

But I can totally see how this would be a great solution for a lot of differing types of bands. So thank you for the suggestion dude, I guess my 'band' is a bit out of the norm lol.

Again great suggestion, I've seen these a while back, my buddy had an Atomic Reactor which he used with his POD ( the lil red bean one) about 10 years ago. But again it does mean getting rid of an amp and having no stand alone alternative, or am I wrong?
Thanks dude.

I use this same set up but go to two passive PA speakers (via an EPSi) sounds awesome , way overkill for my music room, but I likes it!!!

Peavey Classic 50/50 is based on EL34 tubes whereas Classic 60/60 is based on 6L6 tubes so they sound different, 60/60 being more neutral and 50/50 more Marshall. They are stereo so you need two cabs (I internally rewired my 4x12" cab to dual 2x12"). Peavey used to make mono version of those power amps: Classic 50 and Classic 60. They are not expensive and I highly recommend them.

I'm having a hard time following you.. You dislike the JCM800?? A properly functioning JCM800 should take pedals very well. But if it's not working for you, sell it. What kind of music are you playing? Don't think you'll get heavy with a Tech 21. There ok but I would imagine the Engl would. I don't have any problems using a FRFR and the PA but I'm not doing "dejent?" either.

You´ll need the 11R (or any other modeler) to drive the power engine. But for me is a great tool... very light and powerful to handle most of my practice/gigging situations.

It sounds great also (IMO)

Yeah that's what I thought when I bought it, but it doesn't like pedals. I can get a great tone that I love, but can't put any delay or reverb chorus etc as its got no loop.
Set clean it's a bit sterile, maybe it needs a service?
I am still looking for a solution...........thanks for everyones ideas, keep em coming....

Call the place and make sure they're cool with you bringing down your 11R and give a go with THAT amp.. that's ONLY way you're going know if they work well together.. it wouldn't hurt to bring YOUR main player as well.. unless they have a duplicate of you guitar there in stock.. tone is the sum yielded recipe of all the parts/ingredients combined.. doing this is really the closest insurance policy against later buyer's remorse when say the "honeymoon shine" wears off and Cinderella ain't so new and shiny anymore.. any place that has a problem with bring part of your personal rig down to try something out and get a feel for the big picture.. again unless they have EVERYTHING in your chain there ... call them.. make sure they're cool with it.. if not.. they determine whether or not you want to spend your money there.. if they're players.. they'll get it and they'll understand.. especially once you make it known that you sincerely intend on making the purchase should you like what you hear/feel in how well they sound and react/respond together...
oldest retail music trick in the book.. going way back before I was a kid working in the shops.. someone comes in and wants a guitar.. you let them try it out with the hottest amp in the house.. king tone with all the bells and whistles.. practically makes ANYTHING sound good.. but you're really hearing mostly the cool amp and NOT really listening for the wood.. you get home.. after the "shine" wears off.. you realize that instead of buying a Ritz.. you got stuck with a bland old Saltine cracker instead..

Bingo!!!!!
http://www.laney.co.uk/products/product_details/162
This is it!!! I get to keep the JCM800. It's frfr for 11r and I can hook it up via 4 cable method to the Marshall to use the effects etc etc it's £299. Which is just about doable if I sell a guitar..........

Have you try it? How does it compare to other FRFR, like an EV ZLX12P?

Ha ha, ah well......I popped into the guitar shack and they offered me such a good price on the Engl I had to pull the trigger.
I can always sell it and make few quid if I don't like it, my wife suggested getting it and at least trying it out for a month or so.
It's awesome so far, I'll try to post a vid or two of my set up once I've got it dialled in.....thanks for everyone's input.

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